The Men of Former Times (Hsien Tsin)

The Master said, 'The men of former times, in the matters of ceremonies and music were rustics, it is said, while the men of these latter times, in ceremonies and music, are accomplished gentlemen.

The Master said, 'People say that in ceremony and music, men of the past were simple country folk, while men today are accomplished gentlemen.

'If I have occasion to use those things, I follow the men of former times.'

'If I need to use those things, I follow the example of men from earlier times.'

The Master said, 'Of those who were with me in Ch'an and Ts'ai, there are none to be found to enter my door.'

The Master said, 'None of those who were with me in Ch'an and Ts'ai still come through my door.'

Distinguished for their virtuous principles and practice, there were Yen Yuan, Min Tsze-ch'ien, Zan Po-niu, and Chung-kung; for their ability in speech, Tsai Wo and Tsze-kung; for their administrative talents, Zan Yu and Chi Lu; for their literary acquirements, Tsze-yu and Tsze-hsia.

Yen Yuan, Min Tsze-ch'ien, Zan Po-niu, and Chung-kung stood out for their moral principles and conduct. Tsai Wo and Tsze-kung stood out for their skill in speaking. Zan Yu and Chi Lu stood out for their administrative talents. Tsze-yu and Tsze-hsia stood out for their literary knowledge.

The Master said, 'Hui gives me no assistance. There is nothing that I say in which he does not delight.'

The Master said, 'Hui is no help to me. He delights in everything I say.'

The Master said, 'Filial indeed is Min Tsze-ch'ien! Other people say nothing of him different from the report of his parents and brothers.'

The Master said, 'Min Tsze-ch'ien truly honors his parents! What others say about him agrees with what his parents and brothers say.'

Nan Yung was frequently repeating the lines about a white scepter stone. Confucius gave him the daughter of his elder brother to wife.

Nan Yung often repeated the lines about a white scepter stone. Confucius gave him his older brother’s daughter in marriage.

Chi K'ang asked which of the disciples loved to learn. Confucius replied to him, 'There was Yen Hui; he loved to learn. Unfortunately his appointed time was short, and he died. Now there is no one who loves to learn, as he did.'

Chi K'ang asked which of the disciples loved to learn. Confucius replied, 'There was Yen Hui. He loved to learn. Sadly, he was given only a short life, and he died. Now no one loves to learn as he did.'

When Yen Yuan died, Yen Lu begged the carriage of the Master to sell and get an outer shell for his son's coffin.

When Yen Yuan died, Yen Lu begged the Master to give him his carriage. He wanted to sell the carriage to buy an outer casing for his son's coffin.

The Master said, 'Every one calls his son his son, whether he has talents or has not talents. There was Li; when he died, he had a coffin but no outer shell. I would not walk on foot to get a shell for him, because, having followed in the rear of the great officers, it was not proper that I should walk on foot.'

The Master said, 'Everyone calls his son his son, whether the son has talent or not. There was Li. When he died, he had a coffin but no outer burial case. I would not go on foot to get an outer case for him. Because I had served among the great officers, walking was not proper for me.'

When Yen Yuan died, the Master said, 'Alas! Heaven is destroying me! Heaven is destroying me!'

When Yen Yuan died, the Master said, 'Oh, no! Heaven is destroying me! Heaven is destroying me!'

When Yen Yuan died, the Master bewailed him exceedingly, and the disciples who were with him said, 'Master, your grief is excessive?'

When Yen Yuan died, the Master grieved deeply. The disciples who were with him said, 'Master, is your grief excessive?'

'Is it excessive?' said he.

'Is it too much?' he asked.

'If I am not to mourn bitterly for this man, for whom should I mourn?'

'If I shouldn't grieve deeply for this man, who should I grieve for?'

When Yen Yuan died, the disciples wished to give him a great funeral, and the Master said, 'You may not do so.'

When Yen Yuan died, the disciples wanted to give him a grand funeral. The Master said, 'You must not give him a grand funeral.'

The disciples did bury him in great style.

The disciples did give him a grand funeral.

The Master said, 'Hui behaved towards me as his father. I have not been able to treat him as my son. The fault is not mine; it belongs to you, O disciples.'

The Master said, 'Hui treated me as his father. I have not been able to treat him as my son. The fault is not mine. It is yours, my disciples.'

Chi Lu asked about serving the spirits of the dead. The Master said, 'While you are not able to serve men, how can you serve their spirits?' Chi Lu added, 'I venture to ask about death?' He was answered, 'While you do not know life, how can you know about death?'

Chi Lu asked about serving the spirits of the dead. The Master said, 'While you cannot yet serve the living, how can you serve their spirits?' Chi Lu added, 'May I ask about death?' The Master answered, 'While you do not understand life, how can you understand death?'

The disciple Min was standing by his side, looking bland and precise; Tsze-lu, looking bold and soldierly; Zan Yu and Tsze-kung, with a free and straightforward manner. The Master was pleased.

The disciple Min stood by his side, looking calm and composed. Tsze-lu looked bold and soldierly. Zan Yu and Tsze-kung had an open and straightforward manner. The Master was pleased.

He said, 'Yu, there!— he will not die a natural death.'

He said, 'That man Yu! He will not die a natural death.'

Some parties in Lu were going to take down and rebuild the Long Treasury.

Some people in Lu were planning to tear down and rebuild the Long Treasury.

Min Tsze-ch'ien said, 'Suppose it were to be repaired after its old style;— why must it be altered and made anew?'

Min Tsze-ch'ien said, 'Suppose it were repaired in its original style. Why must it be changed and rebuilt?'

The Master said, 'This man seldom speaks; when he does, he is sure to hit the point.'

The Master said, 'This man rarely speaks. When he does, he always gets to the point.'

The Master said, 'What has the lute of Yu to do in my door?'

The Master said, 'What is Yu's lute doing in my house?'

The other disciples began not to respect Tsze-lu. The Master said, 'Yu has ascended to the hall, though he has not yet passed into the inner apartments.'

The other disciples began to lose respect for Tsze-lu. The Master said, 'Yu has reached the hall, though he has not yet entered the inner rooms.'

Tsze-kung asked which of the two, Shih or Shang, was the superior. The Master said, 'Shih goes beyond the due mean, and Shang does not come up to it.'

Tsze-kung asked who was better, Shih or Shang. The Master said, 'Shih goes beyond the proper balance, and Shang falls short of that balance.'

'Then,' said Tsze-kung, 'the superiority is with Shih, I suppose.'

'Then,' said Tsze-kung, 'I suppose Shih is better.'

The Master said, 'To go beyond is as wrong as to fall short.'

The Master said, 'Going too far is just as wrong as falling short.'

The head of the Chi family was richer than the duke of Chau had been, and yet Ch'iu collected his imposts for him, and increased his wealth.

The head of the Chi family was richer than the duke of Chau had been. Yet Ch'iu collected taxes for him and made him even wealthier.

The Master said, 'He is no disciple of mine. My little children, beat the drum and assail him.'

The Master said, 'He is no student of mine. My children, beat the drum and denounce him.'

Ch'ai is simple.

Ch'ai is not very bright.

Shan is dull.

Shan is slow-witted.

Shih is specious.

Shih is smooth-talking.

Yu is coarse.

Yu is rough and unrefined.

The Master said, 'There is Hui! He has nearly attained to perfect virtue. He is often in want.

The Master said, 'There is Hui! He has almost achieved perfect virtue. He often lacks basic necessities.

'Ts'ze does not acquiesce in the appointments of Heaven, and his goods are increased by him. Yet his judgments are often correct.'

'Ts'ze does not accept what Heaven has ordained, and he increases his wealth. Yet his judgments are often correct.'

Tsze-chang asked what were the characteristics of the good man. The Master said, 'He does not tread in the footsteps of others, but moreover, he does not enter the chamber of the sage.'

Tsze-chang asked what makes a good man. The Master said, 'He does not follow in others’ footsteps. But he also does not enter the sage’s chamber.'

The Master said, 'If, because a man's discourse appears solid and sincere, we allow him to be a good man, is he really a superior man? or is his gravity only in appearance?'

The Master said, 'If we call a man good because his words seem sound and sincere, is he truly virtuous? Or does he only appear serious and dignified?'

Tsze-lu asked whether he should immediately carry into practice what he heard. The Master said, 'There are your father and elder brothers to be consulted;— why should you act on that principle of immediately carrying into practice what you hear?' Zan Yu asked the same, whether he should immediately carry into practice what he heard, and the Master answered, 'Immediately carry into practice what you hear.' Kung-hsi Hwa said, 'Yu asked whether he should carry immediately into practice what he heard, and you said, "There are your father and elder brothers to be consulted." Ch'iu asked whether he should immediately carry into practice what he heard, and you said, "Carry it immediately into practice." I, Ch'ih, am perplexed, and venture to ask you for an explanation.' The Master said, 'Ch'iu is retiring and slow; therefore, I urged him forward. Yu has more than his own share of energy; therefore I kept him back.'

Tsze-lu asked whether he should immediately put what he heard into practice. The Master said, 'You have your father and elder brothers to consult. Why should you immediately put what you hear into practice?' Zan Yu asked the same question, and the Master answered, 'Immediately put what you hear into practice.' Kung-hsi Hwa said, 'Yu asked whether he should immediately put what he heard into practice. You said, "You have your father and elder brothers to consult." Ch'iu asked whether he should immediately put what he heard into practice. You said, "Immediately put what you hear into practice." I, Ch'ih, am confused and would like to ask you for an explanation.' The Master said, 'Ch'iu is hesitant and slow to act, so I urged him forward. Yu has more than his share of energy, so I held him back.'

The Master was put in fear in K'wang and Yen Yuan fell behind. The Master, on his rejoining him, said, 'I thought you had died.' Hui replied, 'While you were alive, how should I presume to die?'

The Master was frightened in K'wang, and Yen Yuan fell behind. When Yen Yuan rejoined him, the Master said, 'I thought you had died.' Hui replied, 'While you were alive, how could I dare to die?'

Chi Tsze-zan asked whether Chung Yu and Zan Ch'iu could be called great ministers.

Chi Tsze-zan asked whether Chung Yu and Zan Ch'iu could be considered great ministers.

The Master said, 'I thought you would ask about some extraordinary individuals, and you only ask about Yu and Ch'iu!

The Master said, 'I thought you would ask about some extraordinary people. But you only ask about Yu and Ch'iu!'

'What is called a great minister, is one who serves his prince according to what is right, and when he finds he cannot do so, retires.

'A great minister serves his ruler by doing what is right. When he finds he cannot do so, he steps down.

'Now, as to Yu and Ch'iu, they may be called ordinary ministers.'

'Now, Yu and Ch'iu may be called ordinary ministers.'

Tsze-zan said, 'Then they will always follow their chief;— will they?'

Tsze-zan said, 'Then they will always follow their leader, will they?'

The Master said, 'In an act of parricide or regicide, they would not follow him.'

The Master said, 'When it came to murdering a parent or a king, they would not follow him.'

Tsze-lu got Tsze-kao appointed governor of Pi.

Tsze-lu arranged for Tsze-kao to be appointed governor of Pi.

The Master said, 'You are injuring a man's son.'

The Master said, 'You are harming a man's son.'

Tsze-lu said, 'There are (there) common people and officers; there are the altars of the spirits of the land and grain. Why must one read books before he can be considered to have learned?'

Tsze-lu said, 'There are common people and officials there. There are also altars to the spirits of the land and grain. Why must someone read books before being considered educated?'

The Master said, 'It is on this account that I hate your glib-tongued people.'

The Master said, 'This is why I hate smooth talkers.'

Tsze-lu, Tsang Hsi, Zan Yu, and Kung-hsi Hwa were sitting by the Master.

Tsze-lu, Tsang Hsi, Zan Yu, and Kung-hsi Hwa were sitting beside the Master.

He said to them, 'Though I am a day or so older than you, do not think of that.

He said to them, 'Though I am a day or so older than you, don't let my age concern you.

'From day to day you are saying, "We are not known." If some ruler were to know you, what would you like to do?'

'Every day you say, "We aren't known." If some ruler recognized you, what would you like to do?'

Tsze-lu hastily and lightly replied, 'Suppose the case of a State of ten thousand chariots; let it be straitened between other large States; let it be suffering from invading armies; and to this let there be added a famine in corn and in all vegetables:— if I were intrusted with the government of it, in three years' time I could make the people to be bold, and to recognise the rules of righteous conduct.' The Master smiled at him.

Tsze-lu replied hastily and casually, 'Suppose a State with ten thousand chariots were hemmed in by other large States. Suppose it faced invading armies and also a famine affecting grain and all vegetables. If I were put in charge of that State, I could make its people brave within three years. I could also make them understand the rules of right conduct.' The Master smiled at him.

Turning to Yen Yu, he said, 'Ch'iu, what are your wishes?' Ch'iu replied, 'Suppose a state of sixty or seventy li square, or one of fifty or sixty, and let me have the government of it;— in three years' time, I could make plenty to abound among the people. As to teaching them the principles of propriety, and music, I must wait for the rise of a superior man to do that.'

Turning to Yen Yu, he said, 'Ch'iu, what are your wishes?' Ch'iu replied, 'Suppose I were given a state to govern, sixty or seventy li square, or fifty or sixty. In three years, I could bring prosperity to the people. As for teaching them proper conduct and music, I would have to wait for a superior man to emerge.'

'What are your wishes, Ch'ih,' said the Master next to Kung-hsi Hwa. Ch'ih replied, 'I do not say that my ability extends to these things, but I should wish to learn them. At the services of the ancestral temple, and at the audiences of the princes with the sovereign, I should like, dressed in the dark square-made robe and the black linen cap, to act as a small assistant.'

'What are your wishes, Ch'ih?' the Master next asked Kung-hsi Hwa. Ch'ih replied, 'I do not claim to have the ability to do these things, but I would like to learn. I would like to serve as a junior assistant at ancestral temple ceremonies and when princes meet with the sovereign. I would wear the dark, square-cut robe and the black linen cap.'

Last of all, the Master asked Tsang Hsi, 'Tien, what are your wishes?' Tien, pausing as he was playing on his lute, while it was yet twanging, laid the instrument aside, and rose. 'My wishes,' he said, 'are different from the cherished purposes of these three gentlemen.' 'What harm is there in that?' said the Master; 'do you also, as well as they, speak out your wishes.' Tien then said, 'In this, the last month of spring, with the dress of the season all complete, along with five or six young men who have assumed the cap, and six or seven boys, I would wash in the I, enjoy the breeze among the rain altars, and return home singing.' The Master heaved a sigh and said, 'I give my approval to Tien.'

Last of all, the Master asked Tsang Hsi, 'Tien, what are your wishes?' Tien stopped playing his lute. While its strings were still ringing, he set the instrument aside and stood up. 'My wishes,' he said, 'are different from the ambitions of these three gentlemen.' 'What harm is there in that?' said the Master. 'You too should tell us your wishes.' Tien then said, 'In this last month of spring, I would put on a full set of spring clothes. I would go with five or six young men who have received their caps of adulthood, and six or seven boys. We would bathe in the I, enjoy the breeze among the rain altars, and return home singing.' The Master sighed deeply and said, 'I approve of Tien's wishes.'

The three others having gone out, Tsang Hsi remained behind, and said, 'What do you think of the words of these three friends?' The Master replied, 'They simply told each one his wishes.'

After the other three left, Tsang Hsi stayed behind and asked, 'What do you think of what these three friends said?' The Master replied, 'Each simply shared his wishes.'

Hsi pursued, 'Master, why did you smile at Yu?'

Hsi went on to ask, 'Master, why did you smile at Yu?'

He was answered, 'The management of a State demands the rules of propriety. His words were not humble; therefore I smiled at him.'

He was told, 'Governing a state requires proper conduct. His words were not humble, so I smiled at him.'

Hsi again said, 'But was it not a State which Ch'iu proposed for himself?' The reply was, 'Yes; did you ever see a territory of sixty or seventy li or one of fifty or sixty, which was not a State?'

Hsi asked again, 'But wasn't Ch'iu proposing a state for himself?' The reply was, 'Yes. Have you ever seen a territory of sixty or seventy li, or fifty or sixty, that wasn't a state?'

Once more, Hsi inquired, 'And was it not a State which Ch'ih proposed for himself?' The Master again replied, 'Yes; who but princes have to do with ancestral temples, and with audiences but the sovereign? If Ch'ih were to be a small assistant in these services, who could be a great one?'

Hsi asked again, 'And wasn't Ch'ih proposing to serve a state himself?' The Master replied again, 'Yes. Who but princes take part in ancestral temple ceremonies and audiences with the sovereign? If Ch'ih were only a minor assistant at these ceremonies, who could be a senior one?'