His Conversation with the Viceroy of New France and the System of the Universe

When I was going to Bed at night, he came into my Chamber, and spoke to me to this purpose: "I should not have come to disturb your Rest, had I not thought that one who hath found out the secret of Travelling so far in Twelve hours space, had likewise a charm against Lassitude. But you know not," added he, "what a pleasant Quarrel I have just now had with our Fathers, upon your account? They'll have you absolutely to be a Magician; and the greatest favour you can expect from them, is to be reckoned only an Impostor: The truth is, that Motion which you attribute to the Earth¹ is a pretty nice Paradox; and for my part I'll frankly tell you, That that which hinders me from being of your Opinion, is, That though you parted yesterday from Paris, yet you might have arrived today in this Country without the Earth's turning: For the Sun having drawn you up by the means of your Bottles, ought he not to have brought you hither; since according to Ptolemy, and the Modern Philosophers,² he marches obliquely, as you make the Earth to move? And besides, what great Probability have you to imagine, that the Sun is immoveable, when we see it go? And what appearance is there, that the Earth turns with so great Rapidity, when we feel it firm under our Feet?"

As I was going to bed that night, he came into my room and said: "I would not have disturbed your rest if I had not thought you also had a charm against fatigue. After all, you discovered the secret of traveling so far in twelve hours. But you don't know," he added, "what an amusing quarrel I have just had with our Fathers on your account! They insist that you are a magician. The greatest favor you can expect from them is to be considered merely an impostor. In truth, the motion you attribute to the Earth¹ is a rather subtle paradox. And I'll tell you frankly what keeps me from agreeing with you. Although you left Paris yesterday, you could have arrived in this country today without the Earth turning. The Sun drew you up by means of your Bottles. So shouldn't it have brought you here? For according to Ptolemy and the modern philosophers,² the Sun moves at an angle, just as you say the Earth does. Besides, how likely is it that the Sun stands still, when we see it move? And how can it seem likely that the Earth turns so rapidly, when we feel it firm under our feet?"

"Sir," replied I to him, "These are, in a manner, the Reasons that oblige us to think so: In the first place, it is consonant to common Sense to think that the Sun is placed in the Center of the Universe; seeing all Bodies in nature standing in need of that radical Heat, it is fit he should reside in the heart of the Kingdom, that he may be in a condition readily to supply the Necessities of every Part; and that the Cause of Generations should he placed in the middle of all Bodies, that it may act there with greater Equality and Ease: After the same manner as Wise Nature hath placed the Seeds in the Center of Apples, the Kernels in the middle of their Fruits; and in the same manner as the Onion, under the cover of so many Coats that encompass it, preserves that precious Bud from which Millions of others are to have their being. For an Apple is in itself a little Universe; the Seed, hotter than the other parts thereof, is its Sun, which diffuses about it self that natural Heat which preserves its Globe: And in the Onion, the Germ is the little Sun of that little World, which vivifies and nourishes the vegetative Salt of that little mass. Having laid down this, then, for a ground, I say, That the Earth standing in need of the Light, Heat, and Influence of this great Fire, it turns round it, that it may receive in all parts alike that Virtue which keeps it in Being. For it would be as ridiculous to think, that that vast luminous Body turned about a point that it has not the least need of; as to imagine, that when we see a roasted Lark, that the Kitchin-fire must have turned round it. Else, were it the part of the Sun to do that drudgery, it would seem that the Physician stood in need of the Patient; that the Strong should yield to the Weak; the Superior serve the Inferior; and that the Ship did not sail about the Land, but the Land about the Ship.

“Sir,” I replied, “these are, broadly speaking, the reasons that lead us to think so. First, common sense suggests that the Sun is at the center of the universe. All bodies in nature need its fundamental heat. So the Sun should reside at the heart of the kingdom, where it can readily supply the needs of every part. The source of life should be placed among all bodies, so it can act more evenly and easily. Wise Nature has done the same by placing seeds at the center of apples and kernels in the middle of fruits. Likewise, beneath the many layers surrounding it, the onion protects the precious bud from which millions of others will arise. “An apple is a little universe in itself. Its seed is hotter than the other parts and is its sun. The seed spreads around itself the natural heat that preserves the apple’s globe. In the onion, the germ is the little sun of that little world. It gives life and nourishment to the vegetative salt of that little mass. “Taking this as a starting point, I say that the Earth needs the light, heat, and influence of this great fire. It therefore turns around the Sun so that all its parts may equally receive the power that keeps it in being. To think that this vast, luminous body turns around a point it does not need at all would be ridiculous. It would be like looking at a roasted lark and imagining that the kitchen fire must have turned around it. “If the Sun had to do that drudgery, it would seem that the physician needed the patient. It would seem that the strong should yield to the weak and the superior serve the inferior. It would be as if the land sailed around the ship, rather than the ship around the land.”

"Now if you cannot easily conceive how so ponderous a Body can move; Pray, tell me, are the Stars and Heavens, which, in your Opinion, are so solid, any way lighter? Besides, it is not so difficult for us, who are assured of the Roundness of the Earth, to infer its motion from its Figure: But why do ye suppose the Heaven to be round, seeing you cannot know it, and that yet, if it hath not this Figure, it is impossible it can move? I object not to you your Excentricks nor Epicycles,³ which you cannot explain but very confusedly, and which are out of doors in my Systeme. Let's reflect only on the natural Causes of that Motion. To make good your Hypothesis, you are forced to have recourse to Spirits or Intelligences, that move and govern your Spheres. But for my part, without disturbing the repose of the supreme Being, who, without doubt, hath made Nature entirely perfect, and whose Wisdom ought so to have compleated her, that being perfect in one thing, she should not have been defective in another: I say, that the Beams and Influences of the Sun, darting Circularly upon the Earth, make it to turn as with a turn of the Hand we make a Globe to move; or, which is much the same, that the Steams which continually evaporate from that side of it which the Sun shines upon, being reverberated by the Cold of the middle Region, rebound upon it, and striking obliquely do of necessity make it whirle about in that manner.

"Now, if you find it hard to imagine how such a heavy body can move, tell me this. Are the stars and heavens, which you believe are so solid, any lighter? Besides, we are certain that the Earth is round. So it is not so difficult for us to infer from its shape that it moves. But why do you suppose the heavens are round, when you cannot know that? Yet if they are not round, they cannot possibly move. I will not object to your eccentrics or epicycles,³ which you can explain only very confusedly. They have no place in my system. Let us consider only the natural causes of that motion. To support your hypothesis, you must resort to spirits or intelligences that move and govern your spheres. But I will not disturb the rest of the supreme Being. He has undoubtedly made Nature entirely perfect. And his wisdom ought to have made her complete, so that she would not be perfect in one respect and defective in another. I say that the sun's rays and influences strike the Earth in a circular motion and make it turn. They do so as a turn of the hand makes a globe move. Or, which amounts to much the same thing, vapors constantly rise from the side of the Earth lit by the sun. The cold of the middle region reflects these vapors back onto the Earth. They strike it at an angle and must therefore make it spin in that way.

"The Explication of the other Motions⁴ is less perplexed still; for pray, consider a little" At these words the Vice-Roy interrupted me: "I had rather," said he, "you would excuse your self from that trouble; for I have read some Books of Gassendus⁵ on that subject: And hear what one of our Fathers, who maintained your Opinion one day, answered me. 'Really,' said he, 'I fancy that the Earth does move, not for the Reasons alledged by Copernicus; but because Hell-fire being shut up in the Center of the Earth, the damned, who make a great bustle to avoid its Flames, scramble up to the Vault, as far as they can from them, and so make the Earth to turn, as a Turn-spit⁶ makes the Wheel go round when he runs about in it.'"

"The explanation of the other motions⁴ is even less complicated. Please, consider for a moment." At these words, the Vice-Roy interrupted me. "I would rather," he said, "you spared yourself the trouble. I have read some books by Gassendus⁵ on the subject. And listen to what one of our Fathers told me. He once held the same opinion as you. 'Really,' he said, 'I believe the Earth moves, but not for the reasons given by Copernicus. I believe it moves because hellfire is shut up at the center of the Earth. The damned make a great commotion trying to escape the flames. They scramble up to the vault, as far from the flames as they can. In this way they make the Earth turn, just as a Turn-spit⁶ makes a wheel turn by running inside it.'"

We applauded that Thought, as being a pure effect of the Zeal of that good Father: And then the Vice-Roy told me, That he much wondered, how the Systeme of Ptolemy, being so improbable, should have been so universally received. "Sir," said I to him, "most part of Men, who judge of all things by the Senses, have suffered themselves to be perswaded by their Eyes; and as he who Sails along a Shoar thinks the Ship immoveable, and the Land in motion; even so Men turning with the Earth round the Sun have thought that it was the Sun that moved about them. To this may be added the unsupportable Pride of Mankind, who perswade themselves that Nature hath only been made for them; as if it were likely that the Sun, a vast Body Four hundred and thirty four times bigger than the Earth,⁷ had only been kindled to ripen their Medlars and plumpen their Cabbage.

We applauded the thought as a pure expression of the good Father's zeal. Then the Vice-Roy told me he was amazed that Ptolemy's system had been so widely accepted, despite being so improbable. "Sir," I replied, "most people judge everything by their senses and have let their eyes persuade them. A person sailing along a shore thinks the ship is still and the land is moving. In the same way, people traveling with the Earth around the Sun have thought that the Sun moved around them. To this we may add humanity's unbearable pride. People convince themselves that Nature was made only for them. It is as if the Sun, a vast body 434 times bigger than the Earth,⁷ had been lit only to ripen their medlars and plump up their cabbages.

"For my part, I am so far from complying with their Insolence, that I believe the Planets are Worlds about the Sun, and that the fixed Stars are also Suns which have Planets about them, that's to say, Worlds, which because of their smallness, and that their borrowed light cannot reach us, are not discernable by Men in this World: For in good earnest, how can it be imagined that such spacious Globes are no more but vast Desarts; and that ours, because we live in it, hath been framed for the habitation of a dozen of proud Dandyprats? How, must it be said, because the Sun measures our Days and Years, that it hath only been made to keep us from running our Heads against the Walls? No, no, if that visible Deity shine upon Man, it's by accident, as the King's Flamboy by accident lightens a Porter that walks along the Street."

"For my part, I am far from accepting their arrogance. I believe the planets are worlds orbiting the Sun. The fixed stars are also suns with planets, or worlds, orbiting them. People on Earth cannot see these worlds because they are small and their reflected light cannot reach us. Seriously, how can anyone imagine that such vast globes are nothing but deserts? And how can anyone believe that our world was made for a dozen proud little people just because we live here? Must we say that the Sun was made only to keep us from walking into walls because it measures our days and years? No, no. If that visible deity shines on us, it does so by accident. It is like the king's torch lighting a porter walking along the street."

"But," said he to me, "[if,] as you affirm, the fixed Stars be so many Suns, it will follow that the World is infinite; seeing it is probable that the People of that World which moves about that fixed Star you take for a Sun, discover above themselves other fixed Stars, which we cannot perceive from hence, and so others in that manner in infinitum."

"But," he said to me, "if the fixed stars are suns, as you say, then the universe must be infinite. For the people of the world orbiting the fixed star you take for a sun probably see other fixed stars above them. We cannot see those stars from here. And so it goes on to infinity."

"Never question," replied I, "but as God could create the Soul Immortal, He could also make the World Infinite; if so it be, that Eternity is nothing else but an illimited Duration, and an infinite, a boundless Extension: And then God himself would be Finite, supposing the World not to be infinite; seeing he cannot be where nothing is, and that he could not encrease the greatness of the World without adding somewhat to his own Being, by beginning to exist where he did not exist before. We must believe then, that as from hence we see Saturn and Jupiter; if we were in either of the Two, we should discover a great many Worlds which we perceive not; and that the Universe extends so in infinitum."

“Make no mistake,” I replied, “just as God could create an immortal soul, he could also make the world infinite. Eternity is nothing but duration without limit, and infinity is extension without bounds. If the world were not infinite, then God himself would be finite. For he cannot be where nothing exists. And he could not make the world larger without adding something to his own being. He would begin to exist where he had not existed before. We can see Saturn and Jupiter from here. In the same way, if we were on either of them, we would see many worlds we cannot see here. We must believe, then, that the universe extends like this in infinitum.”

"I' faith;" replied he, "when you have said all you can, I cannot at all comprehend that Infinitude." "Good now," replied I to him, "do you comprehend the Nothing that is beyond it? Not at all. For when you think of that Nothing, you imagine it at least to be like Wind or Air, and that is a Being: But if you conceive not an Infinite in general, you comprehend it at least in particulars; seeing it is not difficult to fancy to our selves, beyond the Earth, Air, and Fire which we see, other Air, and other Earth, and other Fire. Now Infinitude is nothing else but a boundless Series of all these. But if you ask me, How these Worlds have been made, seeing Holy Scripture speaks only of one that God made? My answer is, That I have no more to say: For to oblige me to give a Reason for every thing that comes into my Imagination, is to stop my Mouth, and make me confess that in things of that nature my Reason shall always stoop to Faith."

"Indeed," he replied, "after all you can say, I still cannot understand infinity." "Well then," I replied, "can you understand the nothingness beyond it? Not at all. When you think of that Nothing, you imagine it is at least like wind or air. But wind and air are something, not nothing. Even if you cannot grasp Infinity as a whole, you can at least grasp particular parts of it. It is easy to imagine more air, earth, and fire beyond the earth, air, and fire we see. Infinity is nothing but an endless series of all these. But you may ask me how these worlds were made, since Holy Scripture speaks of only one world God made. My answer is that I have nothing more to say. To demand that I explain everything I can imagine is to silence me. It makes me confess that, in such matters, my reason must always yield to faith."

He ingeniously⁸ acknowledged to me that his Question was to be censured, but bid me pursue my notion: So that I went on, and told him, That all the other Worlds, which are not seen, or but imperfectly believed, are no more but the Scum that purges out of the Suns. For how could these great Fires subsist without some matter, that served them for Fewel? Now as the Fire drives from it the Ashes that would stifle it, or the Gold in a Crucible separates from the Marcasite⁹ and Dross, and is refined to the highest Standard; nay, and as our Stomack discharges it self by vomit, of the Crudities that oppress it; even so these Suns daily evacuate, and reject the Remains of matter that might incommode their Fire: But when they have wholly consumed that matter which entertains¹⁰ them; you are not to doubt, but they spread themselves abroad on all sides to seek for fresh Fewel, and fasten upon the Worlds which heretofore they have made, and particularly upon those that are nearest: Then these great Fires, reconcocting all the Bodies, will as formerly force them out again, Pell-mell, from all parts; and being by little and little purified, they'll begin to serve for Suns to other little Worlds, which they procreate by driving them out of their Spheres: And that without doubt, made the Pythagoreans foretel the universal Conflagration.

He honestly⁸ admitted that his question deserved criticism, but told me to continue with my idea. So I went on. I told him that all the other worlds, which cannot be seen or are only dimly believed in, are merely the scum that the suns purge from themselves. For how could those great fires survive without matter to fuel them? Fire drives away the ashes that would smother it. Gold in a crucible separates from marcasite⁹ and dross, and is refined to the highest standard. Our stomachs even vomit up the undigested matter that burdens them. In the same way, the suns daily expel and reject the remains of matter that might hinder their fire. But when the suns have completely consumed the matter that sustains¹⁰ them, you need not doubt what happens. They spread out in every direction to seek fresh fuel. They seize upon the worlds they once made, especially those nearest them. Then those great fires cook all bodies again and, as before, force them out from every side in a confused mass. Little by little, these bodies are purified and begin to serve as suns to other little worlds. They create those worlds by driving them out of their spheres. And that, no doubt, led the Pythagoreans to foretell the universal conflagration.

"This is no ridiculous Imagination, for New-France where we are, gives us a very convincing instance of it. The vast Continent of America is one half of the Earth, which in spight of our Predecessors, who a Thousand times had cruised the Ocean, was not at that time discovered: Nor, indeed, was it then in being, no more than a great many Islands, Peninsules, and Mountains that have since started up in our Globe, when the Sun purged out its Excrements to a convenient distance, and of a sufficient Gravity to be attracted by the Center of our World; either in small Particles, perhaps, or, it may be also, altogether in one lump. That is not so unreasonable but that St. Austin¹¹ would have applauded to it, if that Country had been discovered in his Age. Seeing that great Man, who had a very clear Wit, assures us, That in his time the Earth was flat like the floor of an Oven, and that it floated upon the Water, like the half of an Orange: But if ever I have the honour to see you in France, I'll make you observe, by means of a most excellent Celescope, that some Obscurities, which from hence appear to be Spots, are Worlds a forming."

"This is no ridiculous idea. New-France, where we are, gives us a very convincing example. The vast continent of America is one half of the Earth. Yet it had not been discovered at that time, even though our predecessors had crossed the ocean a thousand times. Indeed, it did not exist then. Nor did many islands, peninsulas, and mountains that have since appeared on our globe. They arose when the Sun expelled its excrement to a suitable distance. It was heavy enough to be drawn toward the center of our world. Perhaps it came in small particles, or perhaps all in one lump. This idea is not so unreasonable that St. Austin¹¹ would not have approved it, had that country been discovered in his age. That great man, who had a very clear mind, assures us that in his time the Earth was flat like an oven floor. He also says it floated on water like half an orange. But if I ever have the honor of seeing you in France, I will show you something through an excellent Celescope. Some dark areas, which appear from here to be spots, are worlds forming."

My Eyes that shut with this Discourse, obliged the Vice-Roy to withdraw.

My eyes closed during this conversation, forcing the Viceroy to leave.